The Polkemmet Pipe Band of the 1980s: a pipes|drums Reunion Interview – Part 2

We continue with the second part of the pipes|drums Reunion Interview with five Grade 1 Polkemmet Pipe Band members of the 1980s.

This era of the now-defunct but historically significant band made a mark in only a few years. With the first-time leadership of Pipe-Major Robert Mathieson and Leading-Drummer Jim Kilpatrick, Polkemmet emerged as a driving creative force on the UK scene, which was then dominated by the seemingly unbeatable Strathclyde Police.

While “The Polis” were clinically impressive and machine-like in their ability to deliver powerful performances, Polkemmet’s strategy was to test new musical ideas, challenge normalcy, and take calculated risks. The strategy paid off, as the band featured at the top of championship prize lists and beat the Police at many non-major contests.

The past members of the band met at the Scots Guards Club in Edinburgh to share their memories over a few beverages:

Brian Lamond joined Polkemmet as a teenager in 1985. From Inverkeithing, Scotland, he was a fast-fingered prodigy and a prized pupil of Captain John MacLellan. Lamond played with Polkemmet until 1988, when he joined the Grade 1 Vale of Atholl. He lived in Australia for several years, and was a member of the Victoria Police when the band won the 1998 World Championship. He’d later become pipe-major of the Grade 1 Dysart & Dundonald and he still competes successfully in solo competitions.

An ex-Scots Guardsman, Davey McRobert joined Polkemmet in 1985, enjoying the band’s most successful years under Mathieson and Kilpatrick. He would later become a member of British Caledonian Airways, playing under Pipe-Majors Harry McNulty and Roddy MacLeod, and eventually was a fly-in member of the Los Angeles Scots. He lives in Edinburgh these days.

A native of Preston, England, Ian Morris was a stalwart Polkemmet piper. He had moved to Scotland and worked as a mechanical engineer, and soon found a place in the ranks of Polkemmet. He’d go on to be a member of Shotts & Dykehead and British Caledonian Airways. Now retired from competing, he lives in South Queensferry, Scotland.

Gordon Stafford had also learned his piping through the Whittrigg Juveniles and Johnny Barnes. After serving with the Scots Guards, he joined Polkemmet and was one of several charismatic members. He would become co-pipe-sergeant in 1987, before becoming pipe-major of the nearby Grade 2 Torphichen & Bathgate, which he took to Grade 1. Stafford recently retired from competition, but keeps a close ear to the scene.

Andrew Berthoff, editor and publisher of pipes|drums, joined Polkemmet in 1983 as a student at the University of Stirling during his four-year undergraduate degree program at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minnesota. He would enjoy five years with Polkemmet, his last as co-pipe-sergeant, all while also competing in solo contests throughout the UK and Brittany, going back and forth to Scotland on several nine-month tourist visas before immigrating to Canada in 1988.

Unfortunately, Mathieson and Kilpatrick were not available for the interview, and scheduling and health conflicts prevented other past members such as Dougie Brown, Ross Colquhoun, Stuart Cook, Andy Craig, Alex Elrick, Ian Elrick, Jennifer Hutcheon, Christy Kelly, Davy Robertson, Pipe-Sergeant Ian Roddick and Neil Sangster from attending. Sadly, 1980s Polkemmet members Harry King, James King, Sandy Kilgour, Jock Marr, Fraser Mitchell and Alan Ramsay are no longer with us.

It helped immensely that Ian Morris is a meticulous collector of stats and photos. Included here is his compilation of data from the events the band competed in from 1983 to 1986, the years Morris was a member.

Part 1 was full of fond memories of the creative spirit and excitement of a young band with young leadership ready to do things differently. In this final part, the group talks about the rapid rise and eventual fall of the group under Mathieson and Kilpatrick as they chose after the 1986 season to lead the Grade 1 Shotts & Dykehead Caledonia, eventually bringing them five World Championship titles.

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Watch the video of Part 2 of The Polkemmet Pipe Band of the 1980s: a pipes|drums Reunion Interview:

pipes|drums: During the ’86 season, Robert Mathieson and Jim Kilpatrick decided they would move over to Shotts. And it was a bit of a shock to the band, to Polkemmet, because it was flying pretty high. And what are your memories of that, when you found out about that?

Ian Morris: I know you’d heard rumours a week or so before. I think you put two and two together, what was going on. I must’ve been walking around in a haze at the time. I can’t remember. But I remember after we competed at Cowal, I had to go away. I had to go to a wedding. And Rab took us all up the back of the bus and said, “I’ve got something to say. Rumours you’ve heard are all true and I’m going to Shotts.” And I thought, well what? What’s going on? Where does that all leave us? And it was hard to take in. Really for me, Rab and Jim were the driving force behind that band. And to have that away, just thinking, what’s going on? What’s behind it all? And you’re just kind of lost. I think we were all a bit aggrieved because we didn’t know what was, why? Is it us? Why? Because personally I didn’t think it was going to a band in Shotts because they weren’t in the prize list at all.

Gordon Stafford: It was very, very disappointing.

IM: Absolutely.

GS: I must have had my head in the clouds as well because I knew nothing. No warning until I was on the pipe band bus going to Cowal that day. And I got told by one of the drummers that they were leaving the band. And I did wonder, because they always came on the bus, but they weren’t on the bus that day. My memory when he told us was slightly different. I think we went on and played on the park.

“Time’s a great healer. But I must admit, at the time, I found it difficult to understand. And I must admit, I had to say I was really angry at the time. Really angry. – Gordon Stafford

Then we come off the park and he asked everybody in the band to come over and he told us then, and I must admit I was hurt at the time. I couldn’t understand it. We were far better than Shotts at that time. We were very close to winning majors, we’d cracking band, a good atmosphere within the band. We all got on outside the band. And Rab and Jim, we played together way back in 1970. So, we started in the Juveniles together. Polkemmet was their first band. Why would you leave that to go to another band? Time’s a great healer. But I must admit, at the time, I found it difficult to understand. And I must admit, I had to say I was really angry at the time. Really angry.

IM: We did notice, Gordon. [laughs]

GS: And I remember we had a meeting after that. And I think Rab and Jim wanted to finish at Pitlochry. And from memory we decided as a band, no, you’re not going to be pipe-major any longer. I think that was the first I asked you to take the band on. But you declined. And, unfortunately, it was left to me. I think we got a prize out of it. [laughs]

IM: We played. Did we not have to get on a bus to Stirling to do some gig after it and then come back? Because we were all staying in caravans at a campsite, at Faskally. I think we had to go away to do a gig at Stirling University or something.

GS: Yeah, certainly disappointed.

IM: From then I think I left to go to Shotts, I was asked and I did swither which one to go to because Ian Roddick had asked me to go up to ScottishPower. And I did swither there for a while. And I thought, what have I done? Because you just look at yourself, well, maybe I’ve made the wrong move. It was disappointing. I thought there was more in us, but it wasn’t to be. And you’re right, I have never been in a band since that had the same camaraderie between drum corps and pipe corps. Everybody was singing off the same hymn sheet. We all played hard together. We worked hard together. But by God, we played hard together. But it was everybody. It was the whole band. It was the whole band.

p|d: So, what about, we’ve only got, I guess, five of us here, but some other characters, some have passed on. Did anyone come to mind?

Brian Lamond: Andy Craig!

IM: Andy Craig.

BL: He should be here.

IM: Ian Wilson, Ian Roddick. Unfortunately, Ian’s in a care home now. But Ian Roddick was another one. He was, I think, some of the glue that held the band together.

BL: Harry King. James King.

BL: Jock McDermott. “Kermit.” Kermit McDermott. “Crabbitface.”

IM: John Marr. I’m trying to think who else. Alex Elrick.

p|d: Ross Colquhoun.

IM: Aye, Ross Colquhoun.

BL: Christie Kelly was in the band for a while.

BL: Eric  Rigler was in the band for a wee while.

p|d: So, the band Polkemmet after that, held together as it was, I mean, everybody moved on here. Brian, you’d gone to the Vale.

BL: I had one season with Big Ronnie [Lawrie].

20 Photos|View Slide Show >

p|d: Yeah. But after that.

BL: After that, I moved on.

p|d: Yeah. And then Ian, you went to Shotts. Gordon, you went to Torphichen and became pipe-major and took them to the height of Grade 2 and Grade 1. So great work there. Davey, you’re ScottishPower.

DM: B-Cal that time. Just at the changeover with the sponsorship.

p|d: So, everybody moved on as they do. But then Polkemmet, under Davey Barnes and Jim King did very well in the 1990s.

GS: They managed to get their first major.

p|d: Yeah, that major came. And I think they had an army of pipers at the time – 24, 25.

IM: Yeah, I think Davy’s musical style helped that a lot as well. Davy’s a musician. He is a musician, first and foremost. And I think his repertoire, if you look into that ’91 medley, really set a lot of people talking. And I think that also helped change a little bit of people’s perception of what Strathclyde Police straight down the line were doing. And people moved away from that as well.

p|d: What was it? The “Balerno” medley?

IM: Yeah, “Celtic Bolero.” But again, Davy’s a musician, definitely. Davey’s definitely a musician.

GS: Davey was in the Royal Scots, but not in the Royal Scots Pipe Band.

IM: Not as a piper.

GS: No. He was a musician.

IM: When he left Polkemmet, he went to Australia for a little while and then came back, took over Polkemmet again. But he also did Lothian & Borders Police.

p|d: And Stevie Young came.

BL:  I went back [to Polkemmet] briefly. I had a season with Stevie Young, briefly.

IM: Well, the band kept growing up until . . . I don’t know when it kind finally packed in.

BL: Eric Ward was the leading-drummer.

DM: A lot of fits and starts.

GS: It was at the end of Stevie Young’s pipe-majorship, because I’d rejoined after Torphichen for a couple of years and then I left again.

IM: But it was doing okay. It never really hit the heights of what . . .

GS: It was never the same, to be honest. I didn’t feel, like when we had in the ’80s, I felt like that because we were all getting older, as well. I don’t know. Couldn’t do the same high jumps as we used to.

IM: No. I mean there was some, there was some.

GS: There’s lots of stories. There are. And we’ll have to leave those stories.

DM: Just as well there were no mobile phones!

p|d: Very few bands keep going forever. And a lot of bands that we could look at. But Polkemmet, I think it’s important to record a little bit of the history of the band, especially the band when it was in its first musical heyday in the ’80s with Rab and Jim.

IM: I think before then, I joined at the end of ’80 season and the band was winning under John.

GS: Aye, under Johnny Barnes and Simon Reid, who was a good friend of mine. He was a pipe-sergeant in a cracking band. Again, that was back in the days when 10 or 12 was a big band. And that’s when it was sponsored by the colliery.

IM: Johnny left, what? ’81? End of ’81? I’ve got a letter from Matt Morrow, the secretary in ’81, at home saying Johnny Barnes has left. We’ve appointed Robert Mathieson as pipe-major. And Rab worked hard. Johnny Barnes’ band had some cracking players as well.

IM: He worked hard.

GS: Yeah. And a lot of help from Ian Roddick’s brother, Robert Roddick. He was a cracking piper and a good ear, as well.

GS: I always wonder what would happen, because Robert [Roddick] left and went to Dubai or somewhere like that. When I went Robert was setting the band up and it was cracking. I always wondered what would have happened if Robert would have concentrated on the band. A lot has been said about what happened between Robert and Robert Mathieson. Robert Roddick and Robert Mathieson. Because Robert Roddick had a cracking ear.

GS: Yeah.

IM: Absolutely. Didn’t he? And then Robert worked hard, ’82, ’83. We did get in the prize list. We were down the bottom end normally, which was good. Even fourths, fifths and sixths were fine. We were still holding our own. But I think I saw the band change, ’84. And Andrew, you came on board. Davey started coming on board. You started coming on board. We got some different players. Harry King came on board. And the band kind of moved on from kind of ’82, ’83.

GS: The standard of piper, individually, got better.

GS: Aye. It was better.

“We were out almost every Saturday and Sunday from May to the end of August, beginning of September. None of this, you know, two to three weeks in between. Sometimes you’d do a gala day in the morning and then you go and do a contest in the afternoon, all in the number one uniform.” – Gordon Stafford

IM: And it brought me up. I mean, I had to, believe me, I had to work to keep up with you guys, which I had to do. If you wanted to stay in the band, you had to work. And we had Stuart Cook.

GS: The other thing about those days, also, just looking back at some of the records you showed, we were out almost every Saturday and Sunday from May to the end of August, beginning of September. None of this, you know, two to three weeks in between. Sometimes you’d do a gala day in the morning and then you go and do a contest in the afternoon, all in the number one uniform.

IM: Then back out on the Sunday. I think one year we did 26 mini bands (which don’t exist anymore) trios, quartets. I think we were out 26 times.

GS: That was another big thing at that time. At the start of the season was the quartets and mini bands.

p|d: At Belahouston Academy

IM: Don’t do that anymore.

p|d: Great atmosphere, though.

GS: Well, the great atmosphere as long as you took your Diocalm, you were okay. [laughs] I’m still taking it yet.

p|d: [laughs] Squeaky bum time.

GS: Oh, yes. It was for me anyway!

IM: It was. You had to be up and running by January, February for mini bands and trios, quartets. You had to have all your selections there for your MSRs, right, to do those. And I think now I see bands not even getting together until January to start on whatever. We didn’t have that luxury yet. We had to do it straight away.

GS: I think going back to Rab, that was one of the things that he wanted, a way back in the ’80s. He only really wanted to do the five majors, which I found even to this day, I still find it a bit strange. You work hard for nine months of the year to go out and play for five to seven minutes, five times a year. Not for me. The joy was going out and playing with the band every single Saturday.

DM: At a different place.

GS: Aye. And if it’s a small contest, you took it seriously, as you did a major one . . .

IM: And then go to somebody’s house for a party after.

GS: And then, yes. Then go for a party after.

DM: I took it seriously because I didn’t want to sound bad in any way. Everybody was proud of where we’d got to.

IM: And it didn’t matter what state you were in on the Sunday, if we were having a contest on a Sunday, you got up no matter what state you were in and went out and gave it your best.

GS: I can mind, Rab, myself, Ian Roddick, I can’t remember who the other guys were, and we were a bit rough on a Sunday. We’d done a contest on a Saturday and another one the Sunday. And before we went on, he lined us up and forced us to drink strong coffee before we could even start one minute.

IM: Was that not at Peebles?

GS: It could have been anywhere in the world. I had no idea where it was. [laughs]

DM: I think Davy Robertson’s stomach was in the motorway.

p|d: Well, look, let’s wrap this up. It’s been great speaking with everybody and getting everyone together, and important to have a little bit of history recorded and it was an important band at the time and thanks very much for taking the time.

GS: Our pleasure.

Our thanks to the 1980s members of Polkemmet who contributed to this pipes|drums Reunion Interview, and to the Scots Guards Club for the use of their space.