Australia takes open approach to RSPBA judging issue
The Australian Pipe Band Association has decided to take an open and frank approach to the RSPBA’s decision in February to suspend six “international” judges due to perceived lack of compliance with policies.
The APBA has made public on its website a “journal” that outlines its version of the milestone events surrounding the issue that have transpired since 2004, when the RSPBA first discussed an expansion of its judging panel to include adjudicators from Australia, British Columbia and Ontario.
APBA President Greg Gordon said that the journal “will be the platform for my further negotiations with [RSPBA Chairman] Kevin Reilly.”
Using direct, matter-of-fact language, the journal catalogs the interaction between the APBA and the RSPBA on the issue from 2004 until the present. Its latest entry states, “RSPBA action on 2 Nov 08 in suspending ‘international adjudicators’ for 2009 was based on the false premise that the affiliated associations had failed to meet an agreement. The matter is unresolved.”
At the heart of the dispute is the RSPBA’s decision to put international judges Greg Dinsdale, Ken Eller and Bob Worrall from Ontario, and Nat Russell, Brian Niven and Sam Young from Australia in “suspense” due to the judges’ allegedly not providing sample score sheets from pipe band competitions run by their home associations.The RSPBA contends that this was a stipulation agreed to in 2005, when four of the judges went through the RSPBA judging examination process. Because Russell and Worrall had been judging RSPBA competitions since as early as 1989, they were not required to sit the exam.
The Pipers & Pipe Band Society of Ontario has had a formal examination process for adjudicators since 1988, and Dinsdale and Eller have full PPBSO accreditation.
pipes|drums has learned that the judges impacted, despite numerous requests, have received no correspondence of substance from the RSPBA since the matter came to light.
One of the affected judges said that the annual Adjudicators’ Training Meeting, held every year during the week prior to the World Pipe Band Championships, is “in limbo.” He said, “If we are in suspense, the National Council will have to make a decision on our participation, and even holding the event might very well be an issue. As of now, we have no formal notification that the meeting is scheduled.”
At least four of the international judges – Eller, Russell, Worrall and Young – currently plan to be in Glasgow in August to attend Piping Live!, the World Championships and some of the smaller pipe band competitions as spectators.
The RSPBA made a formal statement on the matter at its annual general meeting in March, saying that the suspensions would be reviewed upon receipt of sample scoresheets. The Australian judges have maintained that they provided sample sheets before the RSPBA made its 2009 judging allocations.
International judges are required to pay for their airfare and most of their accommodation when they travel from Australia or Canada to adjudicate RSPBA events. UK-based RSPBA judges routinely have all of their expenses paid and receive a generous fee when they adjudicate events outside of the UK and often will bring members of their family to create a holiday out of the opportunity.
A Facebook group named “We’re sorry the RSPBA discriminates against judges that are not Scottish” currently has 862 members.
The RSPBA has not commented on the matter directly to pipes|drums despite repeated requests.
This ongoing drama continues to baffle me. It appears the RSPBA judges brought this up in November 2008. This means there is the possibility that judges complaints had to do with foreigners” taking paying jobs away from the “home boys.” They certainly could not have been complaining about the abilities or expertise of the “foreigners.” The “foreign” judges in question are NOT chopped liver. I am afraid “stonewalling” on the part of RSPBA WILL work because no one on this side of the Atlantic (and Pacific for the Aussies…) will apply the same xenophobic standards to the RSPBA judges who quietly pocket their Canadian and US dollars all the while giving empathetic nods and lip service to the foreigners who dare to confront them with this issue. Don’t forget
This ongoing drama continues to baffle me. It appears the RSPBA judges brought this up in November 2008. This means there is the possibility that judges complaints had to do with foreigners” taking paying jobs away from the “home boys.” They certainly could not have been complaining about the abilities or expertise of the “foreigners.” The “foreign” judges in question are NOT chopped liver. I am afraid “stonewalling” on the part of RSPBA WILL work because no one on this side of the Atlantic (and Pacific for the Aussies…) will apply the same xenophobic standards to the RSPBA judges who quietly pocket their Canadian and US dollars all the while giving empathetic nods and lip service to the foreigners who dare to confront them with this issue. Don’t forget
Wouldn’t it be more interesting to suspend the priviledges of RSPBA judges that come to the US Canada and Austrailia and other countries, until we get to examine thier scoresheets? Where is the reciprocity agreement? If a judge has passed his or her home association examinations then they should be good to go anywhere.The wealth of money that they make when they come to other countries would dry up quickly. Most of them never just judge the event they are hired for , but wind up doing private gigs and teaching bands and such at a very high rate of pay. If that were to stop, wouldn’t you think they would have something to say? Maybe they would make the RSPBA change their minds over this nonsense…no matter how you slice it, money talks and b.s walks…..food for thought.
While I can understand some of the ill feeling towards the R.S.P.B.A. I have to also submit that when a judge from overseas crosses the Atlantic or Pacific they are not paid a huge amount. Let’s not forget that it’s in everyone’s interest to have judges from out of their own district. Let’s also forget that while judges travel from Canada to the U.S.A. and vice versa, it’s not 100% legal. I’m sure the IRS would have a field day with tax evasion etc. So let’s not get tangled up with the money issue or we will all loose. Let’s keep it simple and by all means keep asking questions, I’m confidant that these judges in question will soon be back in the fold.
if a judge is judging for the money then he shouldnt be judging…personally i think the rspba should be having a look at the home judges results and suspending a few of them instead of banning half a dozen overseas judges
Lets be honest about judging, seminars, festivals etc. It’s not all about money but it’s certainly important and key to people making an effort.This weekend in Los Vegas is a great example of that. Canadian and American judges, instructors, people who travel across the country and abroad etc.to offer or sell their knowledge are no different than their counterparts from the U.K. Fact is the folk in North America turn a blind eye to it and don’t realize how indifferent they are. Typically North Americans portray themselves as having all the answers and they don’t, just as the R.S.P.B.A. would no doubt admit they don’t either.This is perhaps getting off the subject but it’s imperative to own up to wrong doing in our own backyard than to throw stones at others in a non-constructive manner.
I was wondering where this issue was going, in light of the fact it’s been quiet for a while. Unfortunately, from the APBA Time Line it appears it’s going no where fast. A quick link to the APBA web site and purusal is enlightening. Cheers, Kent Argubright
It’s very useful to have that factual account of the matter on the APBA journal. But I guess it’s about something deeper than these bits of paper.
Wouldn’t it be more interesting to suspend the priviledges of RSPBA judges that come to the US Canada and Austrailia and other countries, until we get to examine thier scoresheets? Where is the reciprocity agreement? If a judge has passed his or her home association examinations then they should be good to go anywhere.The wealth of money that they make when they come to other countries would dry up quickly. Most of them never just judge the event they are hired for , but wind up doing private gigs and teaching bands and such at a very high rate of pay. If that were to stop, wouldn’t you think they would have something to say? Maybe they would make the RSPBA change their minds over this nonsense…no matter how you slice it, money talks and b.s walks…..food for thought.
While I can understand some of the ill feeling towards the R.S.P.B.A. I have to also submit that when a judge from overseas crosses the Atlantic or Pacific they are not paid a huge amount. Let’s not forget that it’s in everyone’s interest to have judges from out of their own district. Let’s also forget that while judges travel from Canada to the U.S.A. and vice versa, it’s not 100% legal. I’m sure the IRS would have a field day with tax evasion etc. So let’s not get tangled up with the money issue or we will all loose. Let’s keep it simple and by all means keep asking questions, I’m confidant that these judges in question will soon be back in the fold.
if a judge is judging for the money then he shouldnt be judging…personally i think the rspba should be having a look at the home judges results and suspending a few of them instead of banning half a dozen overseas judges
Lets be honest about judging, seminars, festivals etc. It’s not all about money but it’s certainly important and key to people making an effort.This weekend in Los Vegas is a great example of that. Canadian and American judges, instructors, people who travel across the country and abroad etc.to offer or sell their knowledge are no different than their counterparts from the U.K. Fact is the folk in North America turn a blind eye to it and don’t realize how indifferent they are. Typically North Americans portray themselves as having all the answers and they don’t, just as the R.S.P.B.A. would no doubt admit they don’t either.This is perhaps getting off the subject but it’s imperative to own up to wrong doing in our own backyard than to throw stones at others in a non-constructive manner.
I was wondering where this issue was going, in light of the fact it’s been quiet for a while. Unfortunately, from the APBA Time Line it appears it’s going no where fast. A quick link to the APBA web site and purusal is enlightening. Cheers, Kent Argubright
It’s very useful to have that factual account of the matter on the APBA journal. But I guess it’s about something deeper than these bits of paper.